SeXy Science- You’re Doing It Wrong July 18, 2010
Posted by rocketscientista in Venting, Women in Science.trackback
So, over at Common Sense Atheism, there’s a new post up featuring “15 Sexy Scientists (with pics of course)”. He features an awesome science blogger, Sheril Kirshenbaum, who has a history of being called out for her attractiveness, instead of her science. She just posted with the history of the posts about her, her current summary, and she promises her response on Monday.
I chimed in on the whole shebang in the comments, but wanted to bring it here to state my thoughts more fully and maybe start some more discussion.
In the end, I think Luke@Common Sense Atheism is DOING IT WRONG. He featured only males. He featured some exceedingly questionable pictures (if I pose like that, I don’t actually want you to think of me as a scientist). He featured (in my mind) a few questionable scientists.
But I think it can be done right.
How? Why? What? Aren’t I a hard science, grad student girl who wears jeans & tshirts most everyday? Am I not the girl who refused to change her last name when she got married? Didn’t I call my husband out that time he saw the woman in scrubs and assumed she was a nurse (not a doctor)? YES. So, let me break this down.
First, I think it’s very important to emphasize to the public and to children that scientists (or atheists) aren’t just frizz-haired, glasses-wearing, crazy dudes in labcoats.
They’re also completely normal looking awesome women (and guys) just like you.
And it’s good for them to know that these people can be attractive, too. Pretty girls aren’t excluded from science. And scientists aren’t all super-hot, or super-lame, either. See, it’s aggravating enough that there are few scientists on tv and in the movies. It’s a bit frustrating (but still somewhat true) that a lot of those featured are men. And what’s worse is that the few female scientists who are portrayed are either overly dork-ified, or ueber-sexified. Really. GAH. I’m not a socially inept girl who doesn’t know how to wash herself or brush her hair. I don’t wear my pants up to my bra. That said, I don’t wear make-up most days, but I clean-up pretty nice, thankyou. And I haven’t ever met one of these overly sexed up girls who wears only a bra & undies under her labcoat– that’s dangerous! But I think it’d be wonderful to have the public image of a scientist not being a super-dork (super-dweeb? super-nerd? whatever).
But as someone in the trenches, in the lab, how reasonable is it to present myself as WOMAN? Should I pretend like my colleagues and I stomp around in heels and skirts, bedecked? Are those images of women (as in the original sexy scientists post) featured wearing less clothing than most, gazing over the edge of some cute glasses, with a microscope in hand— are those images ok? Is that how we swing away from the geeked-out visual? Isn’t that completely work inappropriate, much less science inappropriate? Would they be taken seriously? Should we just stick to the pants and leave these sexy lists for the bathingsuit models?
My women in STEM graduate group got together for dinner the other night and this topic sort of came up– what is appropriate to wear to give a talk, or attend a conference, or hell, wear to work? Most of us agreed that we like to make it easy- jeans & shirts in the lab, and a nice pair of pants + a cute button down (or something similar) was the easiest for a conference/talk- they doen’t call attention to our femininity, and we feel taken more seriously. But one of my colleagues was appalled. She contended that stomping into the room to give a talk in a rad pair of heels conveyed confidence, conveyed a sense of ease with oneself, a deliberateness, and the noise made people look at you (as they should!). You stand up there, commanding their attention, to tell them all about your work. But I wonder if it’s the right kind of attention?
I simultaneously do not want to give into the idea that all scientists are male or overly nerdy females, yet I feel like I need to “dude-ify” myself to be taken seriously? But if I walk in the room in a tall pair of heels and a skirt or dress, aren’t I slamming the audience over the fact that I AM A FEMALE before they get to see my science? I’ve heard too many stories of well dressed, obviously female scientists having comments thrown at them that weren’t welcome. I get comments (though not overly negative ones) sometimes when I show up to school in a dress. That’s why I wear my dresses and skirts and cute shirts mostly on weekends. Would I be dumb to ignore all of that and just strive to simultaneously represent WOMANHOOD and SCIENCE?
And while we’re at it, aren’t I kind of being a hypocrite if I say it’s totally unfair to be like, “ZOMG, pretty girls, science” and also strive myself to put out there that I am a girl, with some sass, who’s a scientist? Aren’t we the ladies of the science blogging world calling attention to our femininity already, by calling ourselves scientistas, or babes, chicks, femme, goddesses or anything of that ilk?
Dammit, I want to live in a world where my femininity (or lack thereof, sometimes) does not undermine me as a scientist. I want it to be totally normal to rock the heels, or to be in jeans and tees and grody from a day fixing pumps and working in the cleanroom. I want to be a woman and a scientist, simultaneously, without one part of my identity changing the other.
So, that’s why I think, in principle, a sexy scientist list is totally ok. I think it should include males *and* females. I think it should include those who would generally be judged as attractive, yes. I think it should leave off all those ridiculously scantily clad folks. Scantily clad in lab = NO. Dressed cutely and smartly and professionally= YES. (Well, unless of course it were poking fun at the idea). I think there should be focus on those people as scientists. I think the list maker should get the permission of any people included on said list, too. Permission, permission, permission. Do those mags that put out their hottest lists just cull from pictures on the internet??
I think the world should know that there are some really hott people doing out there who are fabulous scientists, too.
Excellent post! As a female scientist in one of the most physically judgmental places on the planet (SoCal), I have mulled this problem over and over and over in my own mind as well as with others. There has always been (and unfortunately for some time will continue to be) a shortage of women in the hard sciences. This issue has been addressed in forums and panels all over the world. What is less discussed is what you have brought up here. What do we do/how do we act when we get here. I have always been told to act for the next stage of my life. When I was an undergraduate, I went to talks for graduate students, etc. Somehow this advice never translated to dress. For better or for worse, I have a body that will translate as uber-feminine regardless of what I wear. I try to cover up so as to maximize eye contact with professors and fellow grad students, but in Southern California, this is not always easy. I pretty much wear a uniform of jeans/shorts and a t-shirt/tank top. I have cleavage unless I wear turtleneck, so I try to keep it “biological” rather than “sexy”. The day I traded in my glasses for contacts and my flip-flops for heels, I was stared at so much that I considered going home and changing. A professor in the department has the opposite issue. She has very short hair, a teenage boy figure, and wears very masculine clothes. Among the students there is a general air of disdain towards her wardrobe/personal appearance choices. I have joined in these comments from time to time, but can’t help wonder what makes her choices worse than mine, or mine better than my friend who wears mini-skirts and tank tops. Do people take this professor more seriously than they will me when I’m in that position? I often wish I dressed better – wearing the cute sundresses I see my students in or the classy outfits of my friends the lawyers and businesswomen or the stylishly funky-chic ensembles worn by my more artistic friends. My current fashion choices have worked for me thus far, but I can’t help but think that I (and others who have made similar choices) are selling ourselves short. Would I be less of a scientist if I dressed cute or classy or funky-chic?
One thing I do know – socks and sandals is never an acceptable combination.
If being sexy and not afraid to show it should not automatically increase skepticism of your scientific rigor as a female scientist then for whom this is the case it would probably not be a good idea to go to great lengths to hide the evidence that these are not complementary (in the Bohr sense) qualities.
It’s a bit like how as a male you adapt to topless sunbathing. After a while you are struck with breastblindness and it’s safe to come out of the water.
Great post. First, regarding the CSA post, I agree-definitely done wrong. One issue I have is leading out with such a provocative stock photo. Another is featuring photos in bikinis/cheerleading uniforms. If you want to draw attention to the fact that not all scientists fall into the same category, then feature photos in conference/lab attire and have something to say about their science, not just their hotness.
Regarding attire in science, I think it’s something most women in science fret over. (I wrote this post on the subject some time ago.) In the U.S. especially, I think, women are essentially given the responsibility for sending messages (via our attire, makeup, etc.) about what men should think about us. And we’re told-often by other women-that people will not take us seriously if we draw attention to the fact that we are-gasp!-women. I know full and well that there are women who have been harrassed or disrespected solely because they are women. But it’s not about how they dress. It’s about men (and sometimes women) who can’t get past their misconceptions that a woman can be smart, focused, and attractive.
Exactly. It’s not that he said, “hey, there are some attractive people in science. Here they are, dressed as they are when they present their work, and here’s a little bit about what they do, too.” He tried to make it racy with those stupid photos, including the girls that obviously want to be known for not science.
And re:professional attire- sure, I haven’t thought it’s about how they’ve actually been dressed. It is about the people who can’t get past those misconceptions. It’s like when I was a super responsible, super smart teenager who died her hair hot pink- people made assumptions about that too. And while it was great to be the example trying to break those misconceptions for awhile, it got tiring. As having to deal with that enough in the hard sciences, I don’t know if I’ve got it in me. I did wear heels and a skirt to the meeting I had later that week, though I did feel preposterous walking through the machine shop.
This is why I LOVED and totally latched onto Voyager. Sure, Janeway was a female captain, yadda yadda yadda, but CHIEF ENGINEER B’ELANNA TORRES. Seriously. Rad. I don’t think you could argue that even Kaylie was as good a role model at being as independent and confident in herself/her capabilities. (B’Elanna did admittedly have a number of times where she questioned herself, but mostly about stuff having to do with her Klingon heritage or interpersonal relationships, not normally her competence at keeping Voyager going back towards the Alpha Quadrant. I found that very inspirational.) Yes, I realize that scientists aren’t engineers. Close enough? I have no objections with him putting some engineers in with the scientists: there are too few women engineers, too.
I don’t think it’s “calling attention to the fact we’re women.” Long hair does that. Any shape at all does that. Most women’s facial shapes do that. I don’t know of anyone who goes to a conference actively cross-dressing as a guy, because “proper professional” attire for a woman isn’t the same as what it is for a man. If we could somehow merge the 2 lines, I’d be totally ok with that.
The objectionable point, as it has always come across to me, is drawing attention to the fact that you are a stereotypically SEXY woman, where sexy = think thoughts about my body. Naked. Which…I honestly don’t want people at work doing. It does undermine your professionalism in most fields, since now someone is dividing their attention between what you’re trying to show them as a professional and what your clothes are implying about your physical attributes. And the reason wearing high high heels and short skirts ARE viewed this way is because that’s the culture that’s been shoved down our throats since we were born.
My viewpoint on this is that women should feel free to dress femininely, but not provacatively. If you’re wearing something or bought something because it would make you ‘feel sexy’ then it shouldn’t be worn at work. (ok, unless it’s underclothes that no one will be aware of) That’s my take on it, at least . Same rule applies for a guy, it’s just that in general, besides scent, I’m not sure that I’m aware of anything that is sold so that guys look or feel sexy. I think it is FINE to be curvy and wear clothes that show that (it’s not your fault you’re dead sexy), but wearing clothes that ACCENTUATE it rather than just not covering it up is, in the end, unprofessional. And if you dress appropriately, it becomes someone else’s fault if their thoughts about you are less about the quality of your work and more about how to mentally debase you.
I personally set my line farther towards the “dude-ifying” of myself, due to psychological scarring and personality issues. Yay upbringing.
I agree that this guy ‘did it wrong.’ In general, famous compilations of people are based on things related to how they want to portray themselves to the world. Actors and models make money on (and thus often will push their portrayal as) being attractive, so sure, it makes sense to rate them by attractiveness. The scientists that are saving our world want to be rated on how much they save the world, so sure: have those lists. But rating someone on hotness, especially girls, generally ends up with you maybe remembering their name but primarily what they look like and that they were considered pretty damn hot. Not that they are trying to quantify or categorize this or that and how stinking cool it is, ESPECIALLY if you barely give a word to it, rather than trying to emphasize the thing they’re spending their life doing by giving an explanation for the science at least as much if not more space than the picture and name. If you want to sex up science, at least include some information about the science. Otherwise you’re just objectifying the women, which we have more than enough of in other venues, thankyouverymuch. Sure, as a PSA: If you want to put a small picture of me all fancied up next to a paragraph about my work and give it to some 16 year olds to try to encourage people to think of science as not just for nerds, fine. I’m never going to meet any of them. But doing an internet-wide thing where the main idea of the post is “look at these hot ladies. As an afterthought, several of them sometimes do math.” …totally doing it wrong. Sorry this is so long.
[...] SeXy Science- You’re Doing It Wrong by rocketscientista [...]
Your femininity doesn’t undermine you as a scientist. At least in my eyes.
My wife works in industry and jeans are frowned upon. She has to wear nice clothes–and hopefully not ruin them in the lab (biochemist).
As a young, pretty woman, she’s not only the smartest bachelor’s level scientist in the company (or 1 of, since I’m biased :-) ), she’s smarter than many of her PhD/DVM colleagues and often trains them.
As far as I can tell, she doesn’t give a rat’s butt what men think of her. She’s there to do her job and she does it better than anyone else. She’s worked for her company for 4 years and has received both raises and promotions. So while some guys might be erroneously thinking she gets ahead by sleeping with the boss, she’s busy working on her next promotion.
Thanks, Mike. Too bad not all guys see it that way. Every time I want to hide behind my lab-rat uniform, I recall my freshman physics lab partner who looked me up and down the first day we met and proclaimed, “Psshaw. Girls can’t do physics.” Ten years later, degrees in hand, I shouldn’t cower nor care what they think of me (in the end, I try not to let it influence my decisions). However, that experience and a few other bad ones always make me think twice. I hope one day that won’t be the case. I look forward to that. In the meantime, I’ll wear what I want, when I want, and be a kickass woman doing sexy science.
Wow. Just wow. Where do men get this stuff? Did they not have a mother, sister, female teacher, female doctor, female vet? It really amazes me and I’m so sorry that comment was made to you. I could see that being something that sticks with you forever as either motivation or a mean-spirited comment that holds you back from ever becoming what you want in life. I hope it becomes your motivation. I hope you do some awesome science, and hey, if you can look damn-good while doing it, I hope you do that too.